Moeed Pirzada speaks with Muhammad Marandi of Iran to understand why he remains unconvinced about the prospects of peace, despite what some view as recent positive overtures from President Trump.
Dr. Mooed Pirzada: You see no difference between the Americans and the Israelis in terms of choosing the targets.
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Dr. Marandi: No, I think the United States is equal and barbaric the regime. Do you we all remember how did the Iraq war start?
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Dr. Mooed Pirzada: Trump is saying is he’s making a lot of he’s saying a lot of lies. 3 4 days from now he could be saying well the Iran has promised all these things but they’re not doing it and this is unacceptable.
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Dr Marandi: So we have to go to war. I mean he’s the guy who waged war. He’s a guy who began the war by murdering 168 little girls.
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Dr. Mooed Pirzada: Before any major war, before any major battle, first targets are very carefully vetted. That school was on all apps,
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Iranian and American. Those children,
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Dr Mooed Pirzada: many of them were the children of military officers. Donald Trump wants to get out of the war, but maybe the Abu Dhabi and Saudi Arabia would not like to
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get out of the war and maybe the Israel doesn’t want the war to end. So how do you see things progressing from this point onwards? I think that there is a strong possibility Trump will want to restart the war.
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Saudi Arabia today were to say that I will work against the Israeli regime the balance of power would shift if the
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Emirates any of these countries. So I think it was inevitable that the talks would not succeed. The real forces
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behind the scenes were Zionist that u Trump will want to restart the war. He will say one remember one day he says
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I’m on good terms with Iran the next day he says I’m going to wipe out the civilization and the United States did not win the wa salam alaikum and a very
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warm welcome to all of you today I have the privilege of inviting professor Muhammad Marandi from who is joining me
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Dr. Mooed Pirzada: right now it’s a privilege to have you professor you do not need any introduction I think the whole world now knows you almost everyone in Pakistan
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knows you and I can say in the upfront at the very beginning that I think no other country has felt the pain of Iran more than the people in Pakistan felt. I
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think about 30 people on 30 people died uh you know within 24 hours of the attacks on Iran. So the people in
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Pakistan feel the pain of Iran. Um I have seen in the last about 24 hours or about 18 hours two of your discussions
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one on CGTN which is the Chinese platform the other on a social media platform uh with Rana Khalik
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breakthrough and you do not seem to be very optimistic about the prospects of peace at a time when many in the western
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world think that Donald Trump desperately wants to have peace with Iran. I mean that is why he has pressured Netanyahu against Netanyahu’s
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own instincts to force him to stop the war uh or the attack in Lebanon by issuing that social media tweet when it
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says anif enough stop it. So why why are you not optimistic at this point?
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Dr Marandi: Well I think there could be a a number of reasons that I could very quickly point out. One is the nature of Trump
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himself and that he is that he is constantly changing his position and uh
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that he is surrounded by Israeli firsters and and Zionists
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his ambassador to we saw as the interview with Dr. Carlson.
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And you would imagine that after saying what he said that if the Israeli regime took the entire region that would be fine. You’d think in a normal country
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that ambassador would be removed or rebuked or punished
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but nothing happened. So that basically to me shows that uh he reflects thinking
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in Washington. That would be the unofficial policy of the United States.
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I I would imagine in reality goes far further than Trump, but Trump is not
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sophisticated. He’s he’s incapable of um holding his um thoughts to himself or keeping his thoughts to himself.
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And um of course there are other reasons too.
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the the the sheer power of the Zist lobby. After all, we’ve been living through two and a half years of genocide
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in Gaza. No force in Washington or in Europe has shown any interest in
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stopping the slaughter. And then the slaughter in Lebanon has been a repeat of what we saw in
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Gaza. And uh the western media, western journalists, they were fine with the massacres and they tried to paint it as
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Hezbollah targets being struck or Hezbollah strongholds being struck in order to hide the fact that the the
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Israeli regime was targeting families and apartment blocks and so on. So when you look at the the reality of where
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power lies in the west and uh then look at the personality and character of
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Trump I think it’s uh a lot of skepticism we should have a lot of skepticism that doesn’t mean that Iran
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the Islamic Republic of Iran the axis of resistance and and those who resist uh
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this uh evil entity, this evil racist and uh supremacist entity called Israel
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should not engage with uh its adversaries or with the west. But
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uh we should be very cautious and we should not be deceived. After all, you and I both come
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from countries and from parts of the world uh well, almost the entire world is like this, but you and I as well that
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have a very dark history uh with imperialism and empire.
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And uh that history has always been full of deceit and deception. Uh empires do
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not uh suddenly see the light and change.
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their behavior by nature they’re aggressive and by nature they’re brutal and evil. So uh I’m skeptical
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uh but at the same time if the Iranian government says should we uh engage I would obviously say if certain
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conditions are met yes. So I was not opposed to the negotiations in Islamabad.
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Uh and if the government and the uh state thinks that uh we should negotiate
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again in future, I would not be opposed to that. But I would stress that I would
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tell people that I know to be very cautious, to be skeptical
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and uh not to be optimistic in general about those who’ve been carrying out genocide.
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How do you look at the Islamad talks? What are your impressions of the talks?
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Well, I to be very open and uh so that your audience would not misunderstand.
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Uh in general, I steer clear of anything that is behind the doors. But I learned
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at after a point I became involved in media,
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I learned to steer clear of the behind the scenes action because when you’re
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involved with think tanks and media, if you know things that if you know things
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that are not um out there in the open uh or if you know secrets, let’s say, then
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you may uh inadvertently uh say something that harms uh the the cause
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that you believe in. So, um I try and I mean I I I’m sure I have more background information than most,
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but I but like if it’s something that’s secret that um people don’t know, I I would rather not know. So my uh
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information about what happened in Islamabad is therefore limited. Uh the United States did the US representative
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meaning events. If you look at the symbolism I mean if you look at the the image uh of him sitting between two
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Zionists whose priorities are no doubt Israel not the United States.
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And then you that he will constantly make phone calls. You’re vice president, the number
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two man is calls to different people. Of course, as I said, the White House is
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full of Israeli firsters. And then one of those people is actually Benjamin Netanyahu.
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And Netanyahu later we see says that the US vice president reported to him as do
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other senior American officials every day.
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So when the US vice president reports to this puny colony somewhere in the Mediterranean
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that says a lot about the authority and status of the US vice president.
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So I think it was inevitable that the talks would not succeed because uh the real forces behind the
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scenes behind the scene were Zionists and but the the real reason why Iran and
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the United States cannot come to terms with each other. The real reason why for 47 years there has not been rama
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spoken about here and there going to by
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both worked in the world and both are academics. Uh after leaving government they they wrote this book and
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they speak about many of the myths on Iran. It’s a book I’d advise you and others to read. And in it they after
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dealing with all these myths that are constantly repeated by Westerners and in the media they give a road map.
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They provide a road map for um engaging with Iran and for Rakroma.
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They were crushed. They were attacked by all sides of the political spectrum when he published the book. M but if they if these analysts have
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instead of being you know bound to Zionism they had been pursuing the interest of the United States today
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you’d have normal relations between Iran professor Mandi many many people in
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Washington believe that the the 15-hour negotiation in Islamabad between the JD vans and the and the Iranian team were
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sort of successful but uh JD Vance was not allowed out to announce the success because Trump wants to announce the
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success himself and that is why he says that he is prepared to go to Islamabad because he thinks that uh he can take
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the credit of ending 47 year or 50 year old conflict. I mean he thinks that this can still be uh some sort of although I
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mean it is his thinking that this can actually be basis of his Nobel Peace Prize. So you don’t see any such thing happening over there. They think that
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things were settled more or less and both sides know it and they’re passing through the motions of it.
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You know, when you live in I’ve I’ve lived in Lebanon.
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I’ve uh of course I’ve lived in Iran all my adult life except for a brief period when I lived in the UK
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uh for my PhD at three years. Uh but I’ve lived in Lebanon. I’ve been to Iraq
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often. I’ve been to Syria often. Uh when you look at the reality of US policy in our part of the world, death,
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destruction, slaughter, uh extremism, uh funding ISIS, al-Qaeda,
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uh the worst of the worst, and uh you live through all that. uh
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if if if you come to have any faith in the United States having any good intentions and I mean the state I don’t
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mean ordinary Americans I think ordinary Americans are increasingly becoming victims like the rest of the world but
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that’s another story um I think that any optimism about the intentions of the United States would be
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utterly naive uh does that mean that I oppose like uh decreasing tensions? No, definitely not.
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If it’s done in a way in which our sovereignty and our dignity or the dignity and sovereignty of the Palestinians and the Lebanese and others are preserved, of course, in all cases,
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we should move in that direction. But we’re talking about Trump who murdered General Sony at the be at basically he
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was going to do it with Netanyahu and Netanyahu pulled out at the last moment which indicates how foolish Trump is and
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then uh Trump wages war against Iranians.
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uh uh he allows the Israelis to carry out genocide in Gaza which is you know the most horrific the most horrific
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event in I think since it started under Biden.
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Yes. But it doesn’t matter. This continu this continuity doesn’t make Biden or Trump really any
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different from one another. I I don’t I’m I’m not of the belief that Trump is somehow uh fundamentally different from previous
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US presidents. He’s he’s less um politically correct obviously by far.
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That would be an understatement. He is uh less um I I don’t know what
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word to use because wisdom is nothing not wisdom is a has a positive connotation and none of these people are
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decent people but he’s uh he’s less rational let’s say and but that doesn’t mean that by nature they were any
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different. Biden uh is a partner in this genocide and there’s no difference in my opinion
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between uh the Hitlers of the world, the Saddam Hussein’s of the world, uh the
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Netanyahus of the world and the Bidens and the and the Trumps of the world.
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So, professor, at what point you realize the the the tyranny, the injustice, the hypocrisy of the West? Because at some point when you studied you opted to
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study English literature in Iran and then you did your doctorate in Britain that means you you had a sort of intellectual relationship you actually
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were sort of impressed or you belonged to them or maybe you thought their human values. So uh so at what point you got
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totally disgruntled or disappointed and and you saw the other side of the west?
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Well, I again I here I have to be very cautious about wording, but uh and when I’m when we’re talking about the West,
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obviously we’re talking about Western elites. I have many friends in in Western countries and disproportionately
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in the West, I have Jewish friends disproportionately. I mean, I have lots of Jewish friends, all of them
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anti-ionist, obviously. Uh so when I when we’re talking about the west or anywhere else, I mean for example, I’m
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very critical of Erdogan and the uh and his political party, I believe that Erdogan is uh is not a friend of our of
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the Palestinian people. He’s not a friend of the Iranian people. He’s not a friend of the Lebanese people and that he’s a he’s a Are you against his
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political structure? Let me just No, let me just I’ll let me complete this so I don’t I’m not misunderstood. But I’m
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very fond of Turkey and Turkey or for example,
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I have been I spent very little time in Pakistan, but I really enjoy being in
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Pakistan. Uh you know what I mean? So being among people uh is one thing. uh
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or talking about the people but talking about governments because I I criticize Erdogan a lot and so some of my some
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people from Turkey may think well he doesn’t like Turkey. No, of course not.
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actually um it’s one of my favorite uh places. Uh but uh and and the people I
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mean but so the United States when we speak about the West I’m not speaking about you know all those millions of people who went to the streets and
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protested against the genocide in in Rome and in Spain across Spain in you
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know across the UK or elsewhere. But uh my skepticism towards the west in the
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political establishment uh in in that sense I think began before
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the revolution. I was 12. I and uh 11 and 12 when the revolution was taking
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place. 12. And I recall how the western the American media is very pro-S Sha
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and depicting the protesters and Iran was probably the revolution in Iran is probably the only real true revolution in in world history where in every city
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across the country every literally every day people were protesting somewhere and in some cases everywhere simultaneously
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day after day in in huge numbers for many months.
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That was unique. It still is unique in that respect. So you saw the people were out there protesting against and western
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media even though I was a child but since my parents were politically active I I understood a bit about politics
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uh and uh I could see how the western media was demonizing the revolutionaries and praising the sha and that and there
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was one instance which I’ve mentioned elsewhere. There was a a cartoon that they made where Ayatah Humini, Imam
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Humeni, he was sitting in a bathtub and he was playing with blood. And this was like, well, the Sha’s soldiers, his
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troops were gunning people down uh in different cities, but somehow he’s the one who’s playing with blood. In other
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words, they just reversed. And that image I still uh it still is is with me.
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And probably the second moment was I’ I’ve survived two chemical attacks.
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And those chemicals were given to Saddam Hussein by the West with money from the Arab regimes in the Persian Gulf. And is
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guilty of crimes against humanity. And they’ve never apologized or paid compensation of course because they are Europeans and they’re the m you know
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they’re superior to the rest of everything they do is fine I suppose but uh um I survived two chemical attacks
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but one there were two instances uh which would did not affect me personally that were very dark that I
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had. One was when I went to the city of Halabe, an Iraqi city, uh, in northern Iraq, a Kurdish city, after it had just
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been chemically attacked and 6,6,500 people were were killed in a in a minute or two. In a in a minute or two.
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Yeah. Because they they they used um nerve agents. So, kids were playing in the streets, moms were cooking, and they just fell and strang and and you know,
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you’re you’re strangled because I’ve experienced nerve agents.
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I didn’t see the bodies when I went there. The bodies had all been taken by the the revolutionary guards and the the
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Kurdish people and you know and the survivors taken away. But just walking through the city, it’s a small city. It
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was a big town, let’s say. Just walking through it was very was very painful.
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The doors to the houses were open. The doors to the uh uh uh the the yards were open. It was just it was just you know
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suddenly everyone died as or or or not died they strangled you they were strangled uh simultaneously
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in in a few minutes as they were just carrying out uh their lives. That is something that still bothers me uh even
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now I I don’t want to get emotional or anything but it it it still it’s it still makes me very upset uh when I’m
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thinking. So right now since I’m trying to explain it to you, I think about it more deeply than usual and it’s uh it’s becoming a problem right now.
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And uh the second was once when I went to visit uh a hospital in Thran during the war and they had brought in a large
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number of Iranian soldiers who had uh been injured by uh another nerve agent called mustard gas. And I also survived
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a mustard gas attack. Once I survived a nerve agent and on another occasion I survived a mustard gas attack.
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You said that the Arab states were financing Saddam Hussein. Why were the Arab states financing Saddam Hussein?
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Where is this coming from?
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Well, from the very beginning in the revolution, they felt threatened because this was a popular revolution. The Sha
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was like them. He was a despot. He was a proxy. He was an agent of the United
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States basically. You know that the US and British ambassadors would meet him and speak with him. I mean right now the
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a foreign ambassador in Iran would only see the would never see the leader but
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would only see the president when he is giving his or her credentials.
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But in you know but the sha status was so low in the west that you know the US ambassador and the British ambassador
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could easily get an have an audience and he did just like what Saudi Arabia does purchase he purchased huge amounts
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of weapons brought in tens of thousands of advisers. These advisers basically did not would not allow the Iranians to
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learn anything about the sophisticated weapons that they bought and they were making huge amounts of money. it just it another Saudi Arabia.
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And one thing that I learned about Iran during the war in the 1980s because this was soon after the revolution was that
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Iran was very poor under the sha because I went to the provinces near the border and that’s where the fighting was
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and so I I knew I learned about the province of Kestan and Ilam and and Kman Sha and Umier and Kurdistan.
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these these provinces I knew well because I’d regularly go to the war fronts and it was amazing how impoverished they are they were and it
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was only after the revolution that we had universal education during war. So for example, the west which always makes
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this says nonsense about women in Iran uh the the a strong majority of women in Iran before the revolution were
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illiterate. And then during the years of war even though Iran was spending its money to to to fight the aggression uh
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that the west imposed upon us through Saddam Hussein where female education
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uh doubled more doubled in a decade. I mean the the number of women educated the percentage of women educated doubled
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in just a decade during the you know the hard that’s very true that that’s true that the Iranian revolution brought more
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education to everyone it’s a more egalitarian society uh and women got educated woman universities woman colleges but at the same time it there
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is a certain kind of liberal woman the revolution had problem with what exactly if you explain in few
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sentences is is the problem which we hear in the west again and again that women have been treated very badly especially since 2009. What is the
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essential fault line? I I think most of it is basically western propaganda. It’s uh the demonization of Iran.
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uh you know in in Iran obviously in Iranian religious culture and Iranian the commodification of women is
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something that uh uh is believed to be in the interest of of of certain a certain segment of male
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society and that this is not emancipation or liberation but uh but in general the demonization of Iran whether
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it’s women or human rights or uh terrorism or the nuclear program. All of
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this is based on uh on the political necessity of the
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empire in order to uh crush let’s say the resistance and
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rebellion against empire. Otherwise the status of women in the in the west is is not anything to be admired nor is it to
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be admired in in in its proxies in our region. uh or not women, you know,
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anyone the uh minorities or the middle class in the west now is is is is
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falling apart because the oligarchy and the Epstein class
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accumulate wealth in unprecedented manner. But the best way in order to to
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a preserve uh your society’s um let’s say obedience is to otherize. So you
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say, “Oh, look over there at the evil Iranians. What they do to women, so you should be happy that you live here in
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the West and things here are good.” Or look how evil they are. So don’t be too upset that we’re carrying out genocide
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or we’re bombing Iran or we’re slaughtering people in Lebanon because they are bad people and we’re trying to liberate them.
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Professor, sometimes you are professor of literature. You think that Islamic revolution could have done something politically different to avoid itself
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being uh you know clobbered on both sides. One from the Zionist, the other from the Arab states and the rest. I mean it has three principal enemies. the
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imperial western states, the Zionist and the Arab states, could it have conducted itself differently to avoid this kind of
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this kind of uh pressure? Well, when you look at uh at you know things at the personal level, I could I could have
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done things every day that would be better than whatever I’ve been doing during the you know my you know the the
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day if I uh if I go over my actions every
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I’m sure every single day it was
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but I think that the these Arab family dictatorships are not representative of the people on the streets.
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Agree. And although they they have they’ve used their wealth to demonize Iran and to create sectarianism not
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because they are religious but because I mean Qatar for example or Saudi Arabia their leaders are not religious they are
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utterly corrupt but they will use um sectarianism, racism
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uh in order to preserve power. So they would love to see their people hate Iran or hate the Shia and they would spread
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disinformation about Shia or Iran or anyone who who who who they feel may be disruptive to uh their corrupt rule.
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So can you describe in one or two sentences that what’s your critical what’s your criticism of Erdogan’s politics?
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I think he’s complicit with empire. I think he’s not he he has no intentions to liberate the region. Uh he he’s not
29:11
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an anti-colonial figure. He’s not an an anti-imperial figure. He is a part of the empire. Uh but you know, he uses the
29:20
29 minutes, 20 seconds
Palestinian cause uh to benefit himself and and to make himself more popular
29:28
29 minutes, 28 seconds
just like does. But has he ever really supported the Palestinians? Has he done anything to uh harm the Israeli regime?
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No. I mean, building a couple of hospitals in Gaza,
29:43
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which can easily be bombed and destroyed, that’s not helping Palestinian cause. Is that does that
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reflect on the Turkish people? No, of course not. just like uh what the Saudi government does or the Amirati
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government does or any other regime that’s bound to the west that does not reflect on the people. Iran under the
30:04
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sha was uh the same as these Arab family dictatorships and it was only because of the popular revolution
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that which was bloody and which the west did everything to block that Iran changed. But professor professor Maldi I
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mean with this yard stick which Muslim country’s leadership is not beholden to the empire.
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Well every you know everything is is relative and there are different degrees to which uh countries exert agency and
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uh I I if you know when I speak about does that mean that uh everyone in Al Jazzer I I dislike? No I have friends in
30:45
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Al Jazzer. I have friends in in these I have friends in the Aka party. Actually my connections with uh the the the
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ruling party in to go back decades and many of them quietly agree with me and many of them would like to bring
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about change but I’m talking about in general terms Iran under the sha was supporting apartheid South Africa it was
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providing 90% of the fuel there there and it was supporting the Israeli regime and sending oil there and it was
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involved in their military uh in the development of of a miss of a missile program. So the re you know so
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I’m speaking in general terms. Uh Iran back then played the same role as these regimes do now. If uh just a couple of
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the governments in the region had joined the axis of resistance. The Israeli regime or had cooperated with the axis
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of resistance. uh Israel would that would under no circumstances be allowed to do what it has done over the past two
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years, two and a half years. It would have been impossible if let’s say Turkey instead of cooperating to destroy Syria
31:56
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and bring the rise of ISIS and al-Qaeda something that the Israelis and the Americans sought. If they had played a different role under Erdogan, Israel
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today would be much weaker. If uh one of the if Saudi Arabia today were to say that I will uh work against the Israeli
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regime, the balance of power would shift. If the Emirates, any of these countries, if they turned against the Israeli regime, uh things would be much worse for the West than they are now.
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But none of them do so. There are countries that have played a more positive role like Al Algeria
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uh as an example. But uh but I’m talking I’m speaking in general terms and again none of what I say reflects upon the people of any of these countries.
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But professor but professor Morandi the the countries that resisted the Zionist and the Israel were all destroyed. I mean example of Iraq and Syria and Libya
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and Lebanon. I mean so there are some very harsh examples for the other small Arab states. They’re weak. They’re
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afraid. Isn’t it true? Well, they cooperate in this. Uh, in the case of Iraq, Saddam Hussein, I think, did more
33:06
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to help the Israeli regime than most his foolishness and his constant wars and,
33:11
33 minutes, 11 seconds
you know, launching a war against Iran than launching a war against symbolically fire missiles when he wased
33:20
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towards the Israeli regime in order to uh gain popular support. That was not really sincere. Yes, the the Arab world
33:30
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conspired to destroy I mean the Arab world meaning these regimes conspired to destroy Libya. Batar and Saudi Arabia
33:37
33 minutes, 37 seconds
and others were involved in the overthrow of Syria. They were using with the west al-Qaeda to overthrow Syria and then they used the same al-Qaeda against
33:45
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sorry Libya and then they used the same al-Qaeda against Syria.
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So yes, you’re right. These dictatorships were involved in destroying Libya and then Syria. Saddam
33:56
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Hussein’s own barbarism helped to give an excuse to destroy Iraq. You’re absolutely correct. But in any case, I’m
34:04
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talking about these regimes whether you know I don’t you know the these regimes that are now in the Persian Gulf, they
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have actually been the most destructive because they’ve used their immense wealth basically to pursue you to to to follow US policies.
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They’ve paid for US policy in our region. They aid for Israel’s policies in the region. So the way we look at the situation,
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Professor Mandi, that Donald Trump wants to get out of the war, but maybe the Abu Dhabi UAE and Saudi Arabia would not like to get out of the war and maybe the
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Israel doesn’t want the war to end. So how do you see things progressing from this point onwards?
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I hate making predictions because um they they then I become uh they push me
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my thinking in a particular direction. I don’t know what is going to happen.
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I think that there is a strong possibility that um Trump will want to restart the war.
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Will restart the war.
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You may say to yes I I think there’s a strong possibility of that. Um you will you would respond to me by saying but you
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know the United States is uh public opinion is against it. the United States failed in this war for 40 days and um
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Trump is losing his supporters and I would agree with all of that and that it doesn’t make sense but that
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doesn’t mean it won’t happen because we’re speaking about Donald Trump. Uh but that doesn’t mean I think that there will definitely be war. Could it be that
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Trump backs down and moves in a different direction?
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Possibly. But most probably whatever Donald Trump does based on my understanding, my personal understanding
35:52
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is of course a very limited understanding is that I think that he will just continue to be a sinister force and he will constantly zigzag.
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Now, he may do the right thing at times out of self-interest, but I think he will constantly zigzag because he will
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say one, remember, one day he says, “I’m on good terms with Iran.” The next day he says, “I’m going to wipe out the civilization.” One day he says, “Uh,
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we’re talking and everything is fine.”
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He just makes it up, of course, and then three days later he says killed all their leaders and this is a new regime.
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You know when when the vice when the vice president JD Vance came back he created the impression in some of his talks to
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television channel also in Georgia that president wants to create a comprehensive economic package with Iran. He wants a settlement and the hint
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is this that they’re thinking of taking off or desanctioning Iran. Were you in is when you were in Islamad, you you and the other colleagues had some feeling
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that Americans want to take off the sanctions in return for Iran giving them something? No. No.
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You know, I wasn’t in the room, but uh the the fact is that uh the United States
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um wants you to give up it sovereignty and that’s the
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revolution. you know the revolution would have and the United States did not win the war for it to even have such expectations. They lost the war. They
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did great damage to our country but they still but Trump still lost the war and Netanyahu too. Most interestingly what
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most what was most interesting to me was that Vance was constantly making phone calls to who?
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To Trump and to Netanyahu. Yes.
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Well, if Netanyahu was very satisfied from his from what we were hearing him from what he was saying that they he
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reports to me, that does not give me the confidence to to say that, you know,
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Vance or Trump are sincere.
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But could it be that Vance wanted to find out from Netanyahu if they can stop the war in Lebanon because that was what
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the Iranian delegation wanted. Maybe that’s what they wanted. But the issue is they did not do anything about it. In fact, I didn’t see this personally, but
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I have been told, and correct me if I’m wrong, that Vance criticized Iran,
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saying why was Iran why was Lebanon so important for Iran uh when it, you know,
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it could have had a ceasefire or something like that. I I don’t I didn’t see the wording, but someone told me that Vance was criticizing Iran for
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being, you know, supposedly obsessed with Lebanon. Well, they’re carpet bombing the country. They’re slaughtering women and children. And on
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that day when within 10 minutes they murdered hundreds of people. They they murdered anti- Hezbollah pe families.
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They murdered kids.
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Yeah. They they they they bombed everyone. So yeah, of course Iran is going to be uh utterly uh angry because
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contrary to western regimes, the Iranian government, the Iranian state has principles. It has moral principles.
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That’s why we support the Palestinian cause. We don’t gain from supporting the Palestinian people, especially when
39:20
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these Arab dictatorships are constantly promoting sectarianism and racism and even trying to turn Palestinians against Iranians.
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My Palestinian friends often tell me,
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you know, that a lot of the very strange things that are said about Iranians among some Palestinians
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and and Iranians see that because the Persian language media in the West that’s controlled by Western intelligence agency, intelligence
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agencies constantly translate this into Persian and tell Iranians that the Arabs and the Palestinians and the Sunnis they
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hate you. But to the immense credit of the Iranian people, they they ignore this and they continue to support the
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40 minutes
victims. So yes, when Ban says, why is Iran like why does Iran care so much about Lebanon? Because they’re human beings and we care we care about human beings just like in Gaza.
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But the point is that you know Vance may want a deal, but I but Netanyahu at that point did not at all
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seem dissatisfied. Now what Iran is trying to do what uh is Iran is trying to do is
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trying is that it’s trying to make the problem the economic problem or crisis for the United States
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so big that the United States comes to the point where it says here I have to
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prioritize my interest over Israel’s interests. Isn’t it happened so far in the perception in
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Washington is this that that state has already reached because of the employment data because of the inflation because of the gas prices and while many
40:59
40 minutes, 59 seconds
figures may not be visible to the general public the government the white house is actually getting the figures and they don’t have I mean I was
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speaking to Tita parci drita parci of the quincy institute and he in the beginning his assessment is this that Donald Trump and his team have no more
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appetite for another war they want to end the war but they do not know how to end the war because they’re not in a position to give Iran what Iran wants. I
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mean, Iran wants end of sanctions. Iran wants this is this is the problem, isn’t it?
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They’re not in a position to give Iran well that basically why are they not in
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the position that’s the ruling uh government that’s the ruling authority and that’s and I I would say that part
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of it is legal. Yes, some sanctions cannot be removed because of uh Congress and the laws.
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Yeah, because of the Congress. Congress sinus lobby.
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True. But the point is that they’ve not done anything else of any significance that they can do. Uh they’ve they’ve
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done the opposite. They’ve imposed siege on Iranian ports. So um the the point is
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that actually they haven’t broken away from Israeli first policies. The United States continued the United States since
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the revolution has been hostile towards Iran and it’s basically been but but but the revolution was also hostile towards United States like US
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diplomats seized an an embassy for 440 days and something they keep on repeating this every time when someone comes who is against Iran he says look
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they were marching on a flag they were they they imprisoned they they hijacked the diplomats they took them hostages.
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Yes. But that is the logic of empire, isn’t it? It’s like saying that, oh,
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those rebels in the Indian subcontinent during the anti- colonial era, they killed British soldiers. Well, you know,
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you’re an occupation force. In Iran, the US government, as we all know, in 1953,
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alongside the British, carried out a coup and then installed the Sha for 25 years and created his brutal secret
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police, uh the the Savak. And uh during the revolution, the United States supported the shot. In fact, after the
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most bloody slaughter of people on the streets called Black Friday, the next day, literally the next day, Jimmy Carter, who was like the good human
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rights president, uh he called the Sham gave him his full support the very next day after Black Friday. So uh and then
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after the revolution the United States began the US embassy was the a center for conspiracy to to undermine the state
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just like 1953 and then the US gave refuge to the sha and the Iranian students who took over
43:49
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the embassy thought that this was the beginning of the a repeat of 1953. So the sha was a mass murder. It’s like
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well I I used to give this example. But you say it’s like uh Iran giving refuge to Osama bin Laden. How would the Americans feel now? Uh my views on what
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actually happened on they have they have for they have forgiven us. They have forgiven us. But professor winding it up. So
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uh primary sanctions, secondary sanction, straight formers, the right to enrichment. Iran says it doesn’t want to make a nuclear weapon. There is much
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that can be I mean if Iran Trump is actually giving the picture here that Iran has agreed as a result of Pakistani
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mediation that Iran is going to give him solid guarantees which Iran has already have always been saying that we don’t want to make the nuclear weapon but I
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think Trump for the past 15 days is making a big issue of it that Iran is going to tell the world that they’re not going to make a nuclear weapon. So that’s a good good start. And then yeah but that that’s that’s not true.
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Iran has always said that we’re not making nuclear weapons. I mean,
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but he’s selling it, but he’s selling it to the American public. He’s selling to the American public.
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45 minutes
That’s not what he’s saying. What if you look at the the tweets that he did yesterday, they are all just fabrications that Iran is going to give up its nuclear program, that Iran is
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going to stop supporting Hamas and Hezbollah, that Iran is going to stop, you know, none of it is true. He’s just,
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you know, putting nonsense together. And this is where I I wonder. This is where I wonder. And I don’t know. I’m not
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saying that there’s going to be a second war or not. I’m not going to I’m not saying that uh that uh there will not be
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progress at the negotiating table or there will be progress. I’m I’m saying that we should remain skeptical about the United States because the empire
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never has good intentions. But uh Trump’s uh what what what Trump is
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saying could could possibly and I’m not saying that this is an what is going to happen is he’s making a lot of he’s
45:56
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saying a lot of lies basically he said a lot of lies yesterday and then what this could mean is that 3 4 days from now he
46:04
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could be saying well well the Iranians promised all these things but they’re not doing it and this is unacceptable so we have to go to war. So after the
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ceasefire or in after a period of time this could be a scenario and I’m not saying it is going to be he needs something he needs something
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46 minutes, 20 seconds
from to sell to his own people so that he can give a shutter call to the Zionists. He said I got something
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46 minutes, 28 seconds
Iran is not making the nuclear weapon they’re going to and the enrich uranium to Russia. You did you gave 25,000 pounds enriched uranium to Russia in
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January 2016, right? And now you only have 940 kilograms or pounds actually only 440 kg
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of enriched uranium. You can actually always give it up.
46:47
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Yeah. But the thing is that we’ve we’ve done we’ve we’ve you know we’ve done all these things before and and you didn’t get anything. No,
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but we it only made things worse. And Trump is is uh is probably the worst of
47:02
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I mean he’s the guy who waged war. He’s the guy who began the war by murdering uh 168 little girls.
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He began the war with slaughtering little school children. And it was by it was intentional in the eyes of Iranians.
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Remember it was not a mistake. I I think Yeah. No, no, no. I don’t think so because I know a thing or two about war.
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uh in in before any major war, before any major battle, the the the first targets are very carefully vetted
47:35
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because they are they are important to for you to get momentum. So those primary targets are discussed and
47:42
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discussed again and discuss after a few weeks you know an officer may be seeking a new target and he may be in a rush and
47:49
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he may make a mistake and primary targets are all well chosen. That school was there for years. That school was on
47:59
47 minutes, 59 seconds
all apps, Iranian and American. That school was on all maps.
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But those children, many of them were the children of military officers.
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And they wanted to teach the mil Iranian military officers a lesson. And if
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anyone thinks that um that this is not really possible for American soldiers,
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uh I would advise them to go and look at a few pictures of Gaza. It is more than possible.
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You see no difference between the Americans and the Israelis in terms of choosing the targets.
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No. No. I think the United States is equal and barbaric the the the regime.
48:45
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Uh do you we all remember how did the Iraq war start? Shock and awe.
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Shock people. Put them at awe. Make we all recall what American soldiers did in Fallujah.
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49 minutes
They were illegitimate war. Iran hated Saddam Hussein. I hate Saddam Hussein.
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I’m glad he’s dead. He was a monster. He was like Netanyahu. Netanyahu was worse,
49:11
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but he was a monster. But Iran was opposed to the US war against Iran. Iran said Hassan spoke out against it and
49:20
49 minutes, 20 seconds
many many Iraqis were angry with him but he spoke in principle. But all these Arab dictatorships
49:27
49 minutes, 27 seconds
and sadly NATO members they assisted the war even though they were his allies. They had funded him
49:34
49 minutes, 34 seconds
before but the principle of US war. So the the US war was illegitimate the occupation of Iran. That aside, US
49:44
49 minutes, 44 seconds
soldiers in thei in Iraq committed countless countless crimes against humanity, against the Iraqi people. And uh is Israel worse? Yes, of course,
49:55
49 minutes, 55 seconds
Israel is worse uh than the Americans because they are Zionists and Zionists openly support genocide. If you poll
50:03
50 minutes, 3 seconds
ordinary Americans, they would definitely be opposed to genocide. But Israel are Israelis are supportive of
50:09
50 minutes, 9 seconds
genocide. So, but in nature is the US armed forces like fundamentally different from the Israeli regime? No,
50:18
50 minutes, 18 seconds
it is an it is an it is a army of the empire professor and it is out the policies of empire.
50:25
50 minutes, 25 seconds
Professor, what’s a way forward? You know, what’s a way forward? Every war,
50:29
50 minutes, 29 seconds
every conflict, every tragedy ends with some sort of negotiation. So, what’s a way forward? You know, I understand the empire is a problem.
50:37
50 minutes, 37 seconds
You know, throughout history, I think it’s always been the same. If you want to be able to
50:46
50 minutes, 46 seconds
live with dignity and honor, you must be you must be willing to make sacrifices.
50:54
50 minutes, 54 seconds
Resistance is key. And of course, Iran is deeply influenced by a culture of resistance because of the the story of
51:03
51 minutes, 3 seconds
the grandson of the prophet and his sister and Kabada resistance against the death spot and the supporting the
51:11
51 minutes, 11 seconds
oppressed against the oppressor. That is very key to Iranian salt culture and society and the access of resistance.
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51 minutes, 19 seconds
That resistance is necessary for you to be able to reach a point where the oppressor is forced to back down.
51:27
51 minutes, 27 seconds
If the oppressor backs down, you can you can normalize. You don’t have to like the oppressor, but you would have a
51:35
51 minutes, 35 seconds
different relationship. Again, I would advise people to read going to Tehran by Flint and Hillary Le. If the United
51:43
51 minutes, 43 seconds
States had pursued the policy that these two very decent people, the husband Christian, Catholic, the wife Jewish,
51:51
51 minutes, 51 seconds
two very brave intellectuals with um outstanding moral principles and who
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52 minutes
served in the White House and who who were highly educated, if they had instead of pursuing the policies that they’re pursuing today, if they pursued
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52 minutes, 8 seconds
what the policies that they were advocating, we would not be where we are today. It doesn’t have to be this way
52:15
52 minutes, 15 seconds
and we don’t want it to be this way. We would rather live in peace. We do not like war.
52:22
52 minutes, 22 seconds
So there you are. You are in that we did not just one point. We did not start any of these wars. Agreed.
52:29
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We did not start the the 1980 war of Saddam Hussein. We did not start last year’s war and we did not start this
52:36
52 minutes, 36 seconds
year’s war. some uh analysts were saying that uh you know was saying that Iran
52:43
52 minutes, 43 seconds
has imperial ambitions. Iran has uh when when after Saddam was soundly defeated by the Americans
52:51
52 minutes, 51 seconds
after the Americans invaded Iraq. Iran could have taken a piece of Iraq. Iran could have taken a piece of Iraq for
52:58
52 minutes, 58 seconds
itself or said that while Iraq was down and weak and said that okay we we want these changes. Iran did not do that. Do
53:06
53 minutes, 6 seconds
you know that Iran because of the US sanctions Iran has been providing free gas to Iraq? Iran which is under maximum
53:15
53 minutes, 15 seconds
pressure sanctions for years. It doesn’t get as Iraq owes Iran many billions of dollars. The Americans won’t let them
53:22
53 minutes, 22 seconds
pay. But the Iranian government the the leader say you know give them gas.
53:27
53 minutes, 27 seconds
People need electricity. Iraq is very hot in the in the in the summer. So we we’ve been hearing that something like $27 billion the Trump administration has
53:35
53 minutes, 35 seconds
perhaps agreed to to pay back which is Iran’s money which is stuck in Korea which is stuck in which is Iran’s money which is stuck
53:43
53 minutes, 43 seconds
because of the secondary sanctions in Japan in Korea in Qatar in Iraq and in China. Even in China this is $27 billion
53:50
53 minutes, 50 seconds
ready cash but you have something like hund00 million of funds oil revenues stuck across the world and then your
53:58
53 minutes, 58 seconds
trade is restricted. You can’t sell your oil at the normal prices. You are not able to do normal trade with Pakistan,
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54 minutes, 5 seconds
with India, with Turkey. So if there is a deal that actually takes care of these things and you hand over the enriched uranium uh and and you already said that
54:14
54 minutes, 14 seconds
you don’t want to make a bomb, so is there any harm in going for the deal or you don’t trust that the deal is there on the table? No, there there are a couple of things.
54:22
54 minutes, 22 seconds
Doing a deal in itself, there’s no problem with that. But Iran is not going to give up its sovereign right to have a
54:28
54 minutes, 28 seconds
nuclear program or to enrich any anything that Iran if from today they say Iran is not allowed to do this and Iran is no longer a sovereign
54:37
54 minutes, 37 seconds
independent country you can do a deal to um to let’s say for confidence building
54:44
54 minutes, 44 seconds
but to say that Iran permanently cannot do this that’s out of the question and also Iran is not going to forsake the
54:51
54 minutes, 51 seconds
Palestinian people have no doubt about that the Iranian support for the Palestinian people is a is a this is a
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54 minutes, 59 seconds
principled cause. We make sacrifices for the Palestinian people because we believe in the Palestined
55:08
55 minutes, 8 seconds
uh and continue to support Cuba. We we support Venezuela. We when B when no one was helping Bosnia, when Bosnia was
55:17
55 minutes, 17 seconds
about to be wiped off the face of the earth, we went and supported Bosnia. True. to what benefit for Iran? None.
55:25
55 minutes, 25 seconds
None. None whatsoever. But they Iran helps prevent the the the extermination of the the Bosian people.
55:35
55 minutes, 35 seconds
I remember 90s mid ’90s 1994 and ’95.
55:40
55 minutes, 40 seconds
So Iran the brother of the brother of one of my friends was actually martyed there. Uh a young man his name was Na Nav or Nawab.
55:50
55 minutes, 50 seconds
But the point is that for us the Palestinian cause is the ultimate the ultimate uh humanitarian cause of
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the world that we live in today. It is the standard by which we assess who is human and who is evil. Who is
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after coming back from Islamabad the next day the Iran offered United States 5 years zero enrichment which Trump projected.
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Apparently JD vans.
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No. No. No. No. There’s there’s no uh clear offer at the moment. There are no
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clear offers on any area being made by Iran. Everything that you see in the western media is is misleading. But in any case, if whatever Iran offers to do,
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whatever it may offer to do in future, uh would have to be provisional.
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Whatever it is, Iran will not give up sovereignty. Again, this goes back to the revolution. The the Islamic
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Revolution was a revolution about dignity, about sovereignty, about honor and independence and about principle.
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And the Palestinian cause, going back to that, was a key issue. Remember when
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apartheid South Africa uh was empowered, the Iranians after the revolution not only broke off ties with
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apartheid South Africa, but it began to fund and support the resistance movement in southern Africa. And one of the first
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countries that Nelson Mandela traveled to after being freed was the Islamic Republic of Iran. And he went and he
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came to my university. I was a student back then. He received an honorary doctorate and he went to see the leader and said my he called him my leader out of respect for what Iran had done.
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So these these Iran has unlike the United States which is an utterly unprincipled foreign policy, Iran has a principled foreign policy.
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It’s just yeah again I’m not saying that oh so are you saying that Iran is utopian and that
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Iran never makes? No, but comparatively speaking when we look at on the map who
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has sacrificed for the Palestinian people, it has been Iran. Who has not? It is the governments across the world.
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Is does that reflect upon people across the world? No. Because people across the world, their hearts today or with Palestine, whether in Latin America,
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whether in Africa or whether in Europe or Asia, we see that people’s eyes have
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been opened to Zionism and the reality of Zionism and their hearts are with the Palestinian people. So, one last set of
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questions that we are just 4 days away from the deadline of the ceasefire. Iran has opened up the straight of hummus at
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was as was initially envisaged in the in the 15-day ceasefire. The Lebanon ceasefire has taken place for the 10
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days. At this point, do you not see a second round taking place? Pakistan’s army chief was there for the 2 days. He came on Wednesday. He was probably still
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in the I don’t know whether he has left the or not. Is he still He left. He left. He left today. He left last night.
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I think he left last night.
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Yeah. So, he left last night. So, this is Iranian jet. There were Iranian jets in the air in Thran last night, fighter jets, and they were to escort him.
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We we thought that Pakistanis escorted you from to Islamabad to Thran. We heard that. Is this true when you were coming back?
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Uh they escorted they escorted to the border and so out of respect, Iranian jets uh Iranian fighter jets escorted him back.
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Okay. So that was a matter of respect because we we were made to believe that Well, no, it was it wasn’t just a matter of respect. Uh remember when we were on
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our way to Islamabad, I think that was when it happened. The Washington Post published a an opinion piece saying that the United States should murder the negotiators.
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Exactly. I remember when we were in Islamabad and planning to return, we all thought that our there was a high probability that our plane
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would be shot down. And to the credit of all the men and women in the delegation,
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not a single one of them stayed back because they could have said, “Well, we want to stay here for a few days and look around and now that we’re here and
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then we’ll we’ll we’ll take the land route back to Iran as you know that would have been more than acceptable to anyone and understandable especially
1:00:26
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let’s say the younger journalists and so on who were not key members of the delegation. But everyone took the plane
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and they during the flight we were waiting for a missile to hit. Uh it it
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wasn’t inevitable but you know you you would think about that. So we are dealing with a ruthless and barbaric
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enemy whose own media advocates crimes against humanity. This is the world that we live in today.
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Agreed. So we’re 4 days away from the ceasefire deadline. Iran has opened up the straight affirm. United States has
1:01:05
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managed to end the war in for the 10 days war in Lebanon. But you don’t you don’t have any information on a second
1:01:11
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round in Islamabad. The army has left. I yeah I don’t think I don’t as far as I
1:01:19
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know and this morning that I speak with you I have not spoken with anyone
1:01:26
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um uh uh about the situation.
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I’ve only checked the news like for a bit before speaking with you online. As far as I know,
1:01:41
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yesterday up to yesterday, a decision has not been made about a second round,
1:01:46
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but it could happen. It’s plausible. Uh again, I’m I’m when I say I’m skeptical,
1:01:52
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I’m skeptical of the United States. Does that mean that I believe that progress cannot be made? No. uh if the United
1:01:59
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States comes to the recognition that its interests uh that sacrificing itself for the Israeli regime after a certain point is
1:02:08
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dangerous for its own stability and its own future and it decides to make a more reasonable uh take a more reasonable position. A lot of progress can be made.
1:02:18
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If the United States prioritizes its own interests over the Israeli regime, huge progress can be made. But
1:02:26
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the Israeli regime would never want to see that happen. So we have to see how things play out. And the reason why Iran
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is putting economic pressure is to make the Americans come to a point where they
1:02:41
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say, “Look, our our interests are more important than the interests of a genocidal Zionist regime.”
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Professor, last question. So, but Donald Trump saying in the last 24 hours that
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if I have to sign a peace accord, I can actually go to Pakistan to sign a peace accord with Iran. That actually is a
1:03:01
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huge political capital investment because I mean because by just saying this thing that I I’m so desperate to
1:03:09
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sign a peace accord with Iran, he damages himself politically in the beltway politics. You understand there are powerful lobbies. They would never
1:03:16
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like the president of United States to go and sign a peace accord with uh Iran and going to Pakistan. That is unacceptable. So you don’t think that he’s serious when he says this thing.
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You don’t think he’s still serious? But this is it’s a huge commitment saying yes if if I have to sign a peace court I’ll go and sign a peace court in Islamabad.
1:03:36
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any peace of court would have to take into consideration the 10point Iranian plan
1:03:45
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and that is basically that Iran’s allies across the region in
1:03:51
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Palestine in Lebanon in Yemen and Iraq they have to feel secure and safe Iran’s
1:03:59
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sovereignty has to be preserved and there has to be reparations now the reparations these family dictatorships
1:04:07
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in the Persian Gulf that are constantly being milked by the United States, they can pay. But someone launched this war
1:04:14
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against us and it was, you know, it’s not Pakistan. So, uh, we, you know, any
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agreement will have to fulfill requirements and let me give you a a a small example. Iran and North Korea of
1:04:29
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course are infinitely different and uh although the you know the West demonizes everyone and I don’t mean to demonize
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North Korea uh but um um I I think that Iran is and the axis of resistance and the resistance against empire those
1:04:45
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who’ve been protesting across the world and boycotting across the world they are all shining stars of humanity uh whether
1:04:53
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it’s a young 17year-old or 18year-old Korean woman who’s standing in front of the Israeli embassy or if it’s a
1:05:01
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courageous uh resistance fighter of Hezbollah fighting in the south whoever or uh someone from Hamas or Islamic
1:05:10
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Jihad or Iranians and so on or protesters in in in um Madrid, they’re all heroes.
1:05:19
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But uh you know at at the at the end of the day um what I think is I forgot what I was going to say but I’m growing old.
1:05:30
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Uh sorry what I don’t know I have no idea what what I was saying when I reach this
1:05:38
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point. I I I get a bit emotional about these people. you know, when I, you know, when when the the the genocide in
1:05:46
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Gaza started, I remember there was a picture of a woman uh in Seoul in South Korea. And now I remember what I was
1:05:54
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saying. I’ll get back to it. And uh every day she protested alone on her own in front of the Israeli embassy. I’ve never met this woman. I know. No, I have
1:06:03
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no idea who she is. But it is these people who then cause two two more people to join, then four more people to join, and then 50 more people to join.
1:06:13
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These are all heroes. These are all heroes. Wherever they are in this world, whatever their race or religion or sect,
1:06:19
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whatever, they’re all heroes of humanity. And they’re they’re they are our hope. But going back to North Korea,
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uh after Trump visited North Korea, I mean after he had a talk with uh the North Koreans,
1:06:36
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um the Iranians Iranian officials met the North Korean foreign minister
1:06:43
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and they said what was Trump like? They said actually when he spoke there were no problems. he, you know, their pleasantries and so on. But when he left
1:06:52
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the room, he was back to normal. The people around Trump were hostile, were antagonistic,
1:07:01
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they’re unflexible, they’re demanding, and there was no progress.
1:07:06
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So, at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter what Trump says, it matters what Trump does.
1:07:14
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And uh for us, we just don’t want to see bombs dropping on Gaza or Beirut or
1:07:24
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or in Thran. And we don’t Well, we can take care of ourselves, but we don’t want to see every hear the news every
1:07:30
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day, which is literally what’s happening every day Israeli snipers having fun
1:07:37
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shooting kids in the head in Gaza. That for us is unacceptable. It will never be acceptable to us. It will never be
1:07:45
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acceptable to the Islamic Republic of Iran. Come what may. Professor Mandi, thank you so much.
1:07:52
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Maybe we should talk in few days. You know, let’s see if the second round takes place and what happens and 22nd April deadline passes. You know these
1:08:00
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are very crucial dates in between. But I’m so glad and I’m inshallah. But but do read that book going to tan and maybe it would be good.
1:08:09
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So the next time when we talk I have already I would have already got it on the Kindle and I would read it and maybe it would be a good thing to
1:08:16
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speak to Hillary or Flint Man Hill man lab or Flint. Are they in the US?
1:08:24
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Yes, they live in the Washington area. I will track them.
1:08:27
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And both Yeah, both of them are uh are are among those heroes that I I I speak
1:08:34
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- Do you have the contacts, the emails or contacts or something?
1:08:38
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Uh, I I I think I Yes, I do have the phone number of Hillary. I don’t know if it’s her phone number, but it is her WhatsApp number.
1:08:45
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Dr Mooed: You can ask her and then connect me because I was trying to get in touch with you for a number of months, but I wasn’t really finding any contact. I
1:08:53
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Dr Marandi: mean, till I was given this telegram number. So, it wasn’t really possible. Uh, I mean, no one gave me.
1:08:57
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I will I will send her a message. Remind me check because right after this I have a couple of things to do and I’m very forgetful. Yeah, I’ll remind you.
1:09:06
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Dr Mooed Pirzada: Terribly forgetful.
1:09:07
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I’ll remind you and connect me connect me with them and I’ll definitely plan a discussion with them. Sure.
1:09:12
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And I look forward to stay in touch with you. Sure. Of course.
1:09:15
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Dr. Mooed: Thank you, professor. Thank you. Thank you for having me
