General GD Bakshi, a prominent Indian defense analyst, criticized Donald Trump’s aggressive foreign policies, particularly the U.S. and Israel’s attack on Iran, which he believes threatened global stability and colonialism.
Bakshi argued that India, as a third world country, opposed Trump’s unilateral actions and the potential return to colonialism. He highlighted the strategic relationships between India and Israel, and the miscalculations by the U.S. and Israel in their approach to Iran. Bakshi also discussed the geopolitical implications of the conflict, including the potential for asymmetric warfare and the impact on global economic stability.
Interview originally published on 10th May 2026
Dr Moeed Pirzada
This is Mooed Pirzada in Washington, United States. Today, I have the privilege of inviting general GD Bakshi from India to join me in this discussion. Gen Bakshi has served with Indian armed forces with distinction for almost three decades that he is he has been awarded more than once. He has served and seen combat in more than one theater of conflict. He has also done his doctorate from University of Madras in Strategic Studies, and has written extensively on the subject or author of more than 40 books and hundreds of articles and monograms. He has been teaching at the Indian military academy at Dehradun. He has taught at the defense services staff college in Wellington, and he’s also taught at the National Defense College NDC in Delhi. Jal Daks, thank you so much for joining me.
Gen Bakshi
Thank you indeed for having me a pleasure.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
I’ll come straight to the point. You know, I have seen you over the years on Indian media, on Republic television, and often the discussion was heated debate on India and Pakistan, the military conflict, what’s happening between India and Pakistan. And Pakistan, but in the last two months plus days, I have seen a huge difference. You other panelists from the Republic television, so many other analysts were full of rage, not on Pakistan, but on United States and Israel attack on Iran. Can you explain to me why there was so much of rage on all across India, in the newspapers and everything on this, on this war
Gen Bakshi
Mooed, what I’d like to commence is by saying that the Iran, United States, Israel war that is ongoing is a seminal conflict of the 21st Century for the. Simple reason that it will decide whether Donald Trump, by his bullying, hectoring pushing, can push the world back to unipolarity, or we are going to see a multipolar world order now fully in place. And I think it is the latter denouement that we have seen, apropos your of the rage in India against the American attack, American attack on Israel, on Iran. The simple fact of the matter is that, you know, Donald Trump had started more or less a war dance. You know, after he attacked venanzilla, Donald Trump had attacked venanzilla, and in a day it was all over. And you know, Maduro and his wife, sadly, were taken prisoners and, you know, carried off to the United States, helicoptered to the United States, and thereafter we found Donald Trump going on a kind of a virtual war dance, a Tarzan cream, gundolo Strike, drumming up of the chest. I have captured Venezuela in just less than six hours. And now I’m going to go in for Iran. 48 hours, Iran would have been would have been crushed. Then I’m heading for Cuba. Thereafter, I’m heading for Greenland, because Greenland has the rare earth. I want them. I need them. I will take them. And then I’ll head for Canada. Make it the 51st State of the United States. Where would you head for next, Mr. Trump, would you head be heading? Then for India. Look the third world.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
How can, how can India fit into the picture? India’s for two better.
Gen Bakshi
India is a third world country. What I’m trying to say, Mohit, is that the threat was to the entire third world. The threat was to the global south. You know, there was a clear threat that we are going to take the world back to the area of colonialism. Of India has suffered 250 years of colonialism back. We are not going to take any more orders and dictation from any other country? White supremacist or what have you? India is a free country. India is a nuclear power. India is the third largest economy in the world. And what we did not like was the way Donald Trump was trying to push not just India, but every single third world country humiliate What are you going to start next? Slave Trade from Africa. I’m a white supremacist. Is fine, but what are you going to do next? You know, this colonial, this colonial mindset. Greenland has rare earths. I need it. I’ll grab it. When has the heavy crude oil I need that? I’ll grab it. Iran has oil. I’ll grab it. You know? I mean, where does it all end? When are we heading back for an era of colonialism?
Dr Moeed Pirzada
No, I understand the President. Yes. Now I understand.
Gen Bakshi
I just finished. Yeah. I just finished this line of argument. India is the president of bricks. Iran is a member of the bricks. What next? What next is it going to be Pakistan? Is he going to go and just take Pakistan? Because the Field Marshal Mullin so called, has told Donald Trump that he has rare earth, he has copper, he has tungsten in Baluchistan. So what’s going to happen next? Is he going to go for Pakistan? No, it is this, I mean, the generalized threat to the global south. It is what has got the goat of every thinking India thus far, and no further, you know, they impose 50% bloody tariffs on us, man, they we have seen the CIA. We have seen the CIA carry out regime changes, colored revolutions in Sri Lanka, in Bangladesh, in Nepal, you know. And where does it all end? They want to create a cookie land in our Northeast. Where does it all end? A Christian cookie land?
Dr Moeed Pirzada
Very, very interesting. It was not part of the discussion, but you just mentioned that you suspect that the change, the change of the government in Bangladesh, is also orchestrated by CIA. The hasinas government to fall. You see
Gen Bakshi
and we do apology also the ISI, the CIA isI were both involved in that colored revolution which overthrew the government of Hasina wajr. We are not blind,
Dr Moeed Pirzada
but, but has there been. Any paper or any kind of, you know, investigative journalism on this issue, or, you know, there is, there is a hell of lot. There is no dirt of material on this particular thing. We have investigated this, we know some of the percentages involved. And are, you know, we aren’t blind.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
Very interesting. No, I heard this. I heard from, I heard this from some Bangladeshi politicians as well, and my suspicions on the issue. But how do you think that the CIA or the ISI whatever were able to mobilize these hundreds and 1000s of students that actually were, I mean, and 400 plus people died. You know how the CIA was able to manage all this.
Gen Bakshi
There is a playbook that the CIA has. This is not the first colored revolution. Colored revolution, you know, the Arab Spring. Recall the Arab Spring. We call Algeria. They call Egypt. Recall a whole lot of these because of the social media, because of mass texting, you can generate colored revolution. You can identify the youth leaders, and you can turn them around. I mean, it is a very standard CIA playbook. And I expect, I mean, you are very, very well educated. You are quite alive to what’s happening, what’s going on around the world. The Pia has the playbook. Look at the colored revolution in Eastern Europe. Look at the colored revolution in Eastern Europe. I mean, you have you you look at what was done in Iran. 40 to 50,000 Starlink terminals were were pushed into Iran because Iran had shut off the internet through which these revolutions are orchestrated. The colored revolutions are orchestrated, and it is the Russians and the Chinese who help them to jam the starlings, and a lot of them were caught in the entire plot to destabilize, to overthrow the Iranian Govt
Dr Moeed Pirzada
Coming back to this, the Iran which you found very interesting, was, and you have already answered it by invoking the term global South, because India and Pakistan seldom have a similar view of a situation. You know, if Pakistan is like one thing the Indians like the other thing, they’re always, you know, a crossroads to each other. But in the past two months, two plus months, 70 days, Pakistanis were full of rage. But well, one can understand that Pakistan saw Iran as a Muslim country, as the neighbor country with shared culture, cuisine, phenomenon, connect. And also, Pakistan was always accused of having a strong, you know, feeling of being anti American. But India was different. You know, India was not anti American. India didn’t share neighborhood with Iran. India had good relationship with Israel. So, I mean, now when you invoke the term global South, it makes so much more sense that in India, it has been seen an attack on the global South, and if Iran today, what next? This is, what if I, if I correctly, have summed up your position
Gen Bakshi
Absolutely you. You summed it up very succinctly. What I would try to just make one correction to what you have said. The Street in Pakistan is anti American, but I’m afraid the Pakistani army, as an institution is sold out to the American. You know, it has always been, it has always go back to you Khan’s time, cento, Seattle. You know, Gary pass flew from where? From Peshawar with you to was shot down over the Soviet Union, then Soviet Union and Afghanistan, you name it. It is the Pakistani military which has been running counter to the street opinion, you know. And the only politician in recent times we found who could hold a candle to the Pakistani army strangle hold over the nation state of Pakistan was Imran Khan, and he is rotting in jail because the Americans told them, we’ll teach you a lesson. And they always teach Pakistani politicians a lesson through the Pakistani army, who hanged Bhutto, the Pakistani army, they all luck, right? Who shot Benazir Bhutto, the Pakistan army, right?
Dr Moeed Pirzada
That has been in case of Benazir Bhutto, it’s not very clear. I mean, of course you can Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was hanged by General Zia. But those cases very mysterious in the sense that she had a compact with General Musharraf. She was supposed to be the prime minister. Was supposed to be the president. The situation becomes very complex. But when you say that the Pakistani military sold out, I mean you said, you rightly said about Imran Khan and that. But can we also say this thing, that Pakistani military has a strategic relationship with the. United States and the West from the very beginning. Can you also put it this way?
Gen Bakshi
Let me put it this way. You know you the Pakistani military has been renting out Pakistani territory to extra regional powers, to the United States, to China, to manage its competition, military, security competition with India. The standard strategy has been that exactly what Ukraine has done for the United States. Zelensky has rented out his territory for a proxy war against Russia. The Americans are prepared to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian. About 2 million Ukrainians have been killed. 8 million Ukrainians have fled their country, but that man is carrying out a war dance. Four years he kept Russia down, kept Russia engaged in a conflict. Unfortunately, that was the role Pakistan was the military in Pakistan was playing. They were trying to, they were trying to rent out their strategic space. You own a very strategic bit of space on the borders of Afghanistan, on the rim lands of Central Asia, you know, and if anybody wants to contain India, if the American one are worried about rising India, India, a nuclear power. India, the third largest economy in the world, almost, almost there we were the fourth largest India, space power. You want to contain India? What do you do? You utilize Pakistan. And Pakistan military is very happy being used. Very happy being used. This
Dr Moeed Pirzada
is, this is very interesting. I this is a very interesting digression. But within Pakistan, if you look at the last 20 plus years within Pakistan, it is often felt that India has developed a multi dimensional, multi strategic relationship with United States in the West. I mean, for instance, every year India was having two plus two dialog with India’s India’s Defense Minister and Foreign Minister were having with the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense, a two plus two dialog that was taking place in Washington and also also in New Delhi. So India was also developing a strategic relationship, you know, especially after the NDA government came in BJP in the past 20 years, the hijack and everything. So why do you think that Pakistan is necessarily renting out the space in India is only having a strategic relationship? What’s the distinction? What’s the difference?
Gen Bakshi
The difference is just this that we did try to repair our relationships with the United States, because 1990 the Soviet Union was destroyed, splintered into 15 states. And the unfortunate reality, you know, we are realists, the unfortunate reality was that America, we entered a unipolar power situation. America emerged as the sole superpower, and we had no option but to, you know, create a modus vivendi with the with the American then we found that the Americans suddenly realized that China was emerging as a hegemon in Asia, that China was the next challenge, adversary, adversarial superpower, and the Americans wanted to contain China. For that, they needed India, very simple. So there was a congruence of interest, a new confluence of interest, which was not there earlier, right? And therefore, for 30 years, Indian diplomats, American diplomats, made strenuous efforts to create a new balance. India became a member of the quad. You know, United States, Japan, India, Australia. You know, this was the quad that they tried to create to counter it is a. It is a. I mean the realist theory.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
You say they tried to create. India is a member of the quad. You know, the four countries, Japan, India and United States are there in the quad to contain China. So whereas you say that the Pakistani military has rented out itself, India has also entered into strategic relationship. For instance, India entered into,have we given any basis?
Gen Bakshi
Have we provided any air bases, naval bases, to the United States of America? Have we given out our territory, sovereign territory? No, we are in, we are in a relationship of equal and even that, because otherwise we get digress to India, Pakistan. But I’ll, I’ll answer your question. The problem was, for 30 years in. Ian diplomats, American diplomats, worked very hard, and we had gotten a very good Indo US, dialog going, a strategic partnership going, then came Donald Trump and wrecked it all like a raging bull in a china shop. He wrecked it all, and suddenly the tariffs became the defining thing, instead of geopolitics, right? And he imposed 50% tariffs on India, being a leader of the bricks block, 50% tariffs on Brazil, right? He went on a total anti third world crusade. And with that, we have to, now very clearly think that we have to rethink our relationship with the United States. You know, there can be, is this your individual?
Gen Bakshi
I just finished, you know, there can be two. You know, principle, geopolitical architecture, right? One is that you consider China the principal hegemon, then a partnership between United States, India, Japan, NATO. This thing, you know, sound viable, but if America turns out to be the principal hegemon, principal threat to the third world nation. Well, then the alternative architecture is Russia, India, China, BRICS versus the American hegemon, which is running amok, who’s going on a seven to eight countries he has attacked since he came in Iran
Dr Moeed Pirzada
Is the ninth country. Iran is actually the ninth country, seven to eight countries we had attacked earlier, Somalia, you name it. said, could the anger in India be because of the Donald Trump’s treatment of India over the last 12 months, the way it treated India with disrespect. India was not expecting it to be treated this way on the trade issue. Could, could the anger in India because you also an ally? You’re also developing a very strong relationship with Israel, right? So the reaction, could the reaction be because of Trump?
Gen Bakshi
The reaction was solely and solely because of Trump.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
Okay,
Gen Bakshi
solely because of Trump. India is a civilizational state. It doesn’t like to be pushed around. We don’t like to play second fiddle. We are not going to be Junior partnership partners in any strategic relationship, right? India stands as a civilizational state, like Iran is a civilizational state. They have self respect. They they value their strategic autonomy. They value their you know, autarky as a power center in its own right. And we do think that the world is heading towards a multi polar power configuration which is already upon us. The problem is the United States is still in a time walk. The multi polar power equation was from 9090, to about 2017, and thereafter there has been a paradigm shift. The United States wants to reverse this paradigm shift. The United States wants to take the world back to the unipolar power equation. I’m afraid. That’s not happening, and the United States, by stupid war of choice against Iran, has is now a empire in decline. It is in decline, and it has hastened its decline by this unnecessary, uncalled for war of choice, which has devastated the global economy, which has crashed the global economy, which is pushing the world towards recession, Europe, Asia, Africa, some South Asian countries, because of this blockage of the Gulf of almost no fertilizers are coming out. 350 million people could face famine next year. Mooed , this man has created a disaster.
But the two different things, either the reaction is because on the principle of global South, or the reaction is principally directed because of the Donald Trump. If Donald Trump had not treated India with this kind of disrespect, which he did, 50% treaties and all that, would India then be still reacting in this fashion after all, the Prime Minister Narendra Modi went to see in Israel for three days trip just before this, which actually became very controversial.
Gen Bakshi
Don’t forget, India and Iran have long standing relationships, right? Iran gave. US bridge, a land bridge, or gave us a corridor to get to Afghanistan. Iran gave us the corridor to get to Central Asia. It’s our window to Central Asia. It’s our window to Afghanistan, where India had constructed the ring road, you see, and it we could link it via Iran gave us support of Chabahar, and frankly, when we were on opposite sides in Afghanistan, India, they had Iran had cooperated quite extensively, civilizationally, the Iranian civilization, the Zoroastrian civilization and the Indian Vedic civilization. And hello, a lot in common. You know, the zendavesta and the Vedas, they are written in the same meter, in the same listing. And with Shia Islam, we have, you know, greater understanding, because there is a lot of commonality between Shia, Islam and the bhakti movement, even in Hinduism. So there are a lot of common factors that were there with Iran. And Iran, incidentally, is a member of the bricks. I hope you realize that yes and India is the president of the bricks. Yes, India is the voice of the Global South. Yes, India is going to be a standalone power. We don’t need props.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
But despite this, despite the fact that India, as you say, and I agree, that India, is perceived as a leader of the Global South, India has been president of the BRICs. Iran is a member of the bricks. And you had civilizational links with India. In India support, and Iran supported you diplomatically on many occasions, even at times, you know, displeasing Pakistan, yet the Prime Minister Narendra Modi went and was embraced by Prime Minister Nathan Yahoo just before the attack on Iran, which wasn’t really seen, which was seen as sort of an endorsement of the Israeli attack on Iran. So how do you really explain the contradiction?
Gen Bakshi
Look, let me be blunt and straightforward before any conflict starts. Before any conflict starts, we have, you know, the armed forces, the intelligence agencies. I was in the military operations directorate on 210, years, the military, the intelligence agencies, they carry out an assessment of what is the outcome going to be. So that you have to align yourself on to, you know, straight forward, you have to align yourself with the ground reality.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
You have to align yourself with a victor, not with the principle,
Gen Bakshi
There’s a big difference. Because in India, in the armed forces, in intelligence, work, you have to work on what is the ground reality, not what I wish for. You see, not what I wish for. You have to work on the ground realities. And therefore, there was a school of thought in India. And there is, you know, in every Democratic quality, there is a device. So there are two schools of thought in India. One school of thought says, a United States is the future. That is the way to go. The other school of thought feels, no, it is Russia, India, China triangle, which is the future, which is the bricks, which is the future, right? So, when America started putting a lot of pressure in India, and we needed a trade deal with the United States. So there was a lot of pressure in India, because lot of jobs in India are stuck with that American trade deal. You know, our leather sector, our textile sector, our jewelry sector, you know, mass employment sectors, fisheries, agriculture, they are dependent upon the American market, export market, right? So when America started putting pressure on India, they were concerned that we didn’t want our people to suffer. So therefore there was a school of thought that Donald Trump is a temporary phenomena. He is there maximum for three years more. And like Japan, like Europe, lot of people decide, let’s suffer this man for the you know, this an Asian and again, for the next three years, and then possibly America will get back to normal, right, and get back to geopolitics, instead of trade and tariffs as being the defining the thing of American polity. So there was a school of thought that you know, that possibly the reality in the Middle East is that America, Israel combination, the military combination is, in pure beam count terms, simply too strong for Iran. Iran is likely to lose. Iran will not prevail. And the entire geopolitical architecture of the Middle East. Will take a change. I was one of the few people in India, military analysts in India, who felt clearly that is not the way it was heading. Really, Iran was going to use asymmetric warfare, and Iran was going to prevail. Look, a guerrilla army wins, if it does not lose, a standing army loses if it does not win. That was what happened in Vietnam. And you know, with Iran, the military equation was skewed from the very outset. Look, let me explain you must understand this. You know, when United States attack, Saddam, Hussein, Iraq. Iraq is 1/4 the size of Iran, two there’s a flat desert. There are no mountains. Iran is one of the most mountainous countries, four times the size of Iraq, right? It has the zagaros mountains, elbows mountains. It is, I mean, you can defend 92 million population. It is a civilizational state. And my simple point was a mathematical equation, a simple mathematical equation that when the United States had to attack Iraq in Gulf War One, do you know, they got 750,000 books on the ground and a 48 day air campaign, interdiction campaign to you know, pave their entry, military entry into Iraq. And they prevailed. They they were able to liberate, as they said, covid, right? Girls bought two. Iraq was highly weaker, yet the Americans had to put 350,000 votes on the ground. It’s another thing that the CIA simply purchased. Bribed. The Republican Guards told them to melt away, and after they take over, they’ll get you good jobs. And we all know what happened, of course, of course, I say you must read some of the subterranean text, right? You must know the American sources will tell you this, the CIA had bribed the Republican Guards, and then the Republican Guards were taken for a ride, and they were told to get lost, and they became the ISIS, I hope you
Dr Moeed Pirzada
and Bremer discarded and dismantled the army. Then they became rebellious and turned itself into a gorilla warfare.
Gen Bakshi
Gorilla warfare. They became the I ISIS. The entire ISIS core was the Republican Guards of Saddam Hussein, who had been taken, duped, taken for a ride, but to come back to the Iran one second to come back to Iran before I lose the threat. So if to capture Iraq, you needed 750,000 troops to capture Iran to have a regime change, I’m afraid you needed at least a million boots on the ground, 500,000 to a million boots on the ground, and they had to fight for 18 months, and the number of body bag would run into Several 1000. Was America capable of that, and air power campaign alone could not ensure regime change. Could not, you know, ensure that Iran became a colony and all of Iran’s oil was now going to be there. Donald Trump was too mesmerized by his victory in Venezuela, the simple fact that some people of the world must understand is Iran is not venan. I had seen it coming, and I had been warning our people, and I’m very happy that lot of people have come around to my view that Iran has emerged stronger Robert Pip. Professor Robert PIP has clearly enunciated, I think he’s one of the best scholars on this particular subject of limited wars and air power. And he has said Iran has emerged much stronger from the war, much stronger than it was before this stupid 70 Day War, you know, which now controls the Gulf of hormones,
Dr Moeed Pirzada
the calculus, apparently, the Zionist supporters and advisers and national Yahoo and people around Trump made him believe this thing that just like it happened in the 1990s in the Yugoslavian air campaign, which ran for 78 days. A massive, a massive bombing campaign will actually collapse the military, the IRGC, the decapitations of the of the top politicians in the military, will lead to a surrender, kind of situation that hasn’t really happened in Iran. Otherwise, they have gone for, for cutting the I mean, they have actually done massive decapitation. In in Iran, but, but the regime hasn’t really collapsed.
Gen Bakshi
Look in the annals of warfare in military history, you know we you can’t do single event forecasting in national security forecasting. Mohi, do you have to go for pattern modeling, pattern prediction? Patterns tend to persist and repeat themselves cyclically, you know, and if you wish to make a heuristic warning forecast, then you study the patterns of the past and apply them to the present situation, and you can extrapolate and come with a fairly reasonably accurate, like I said, Not algorithmic, but heuristic warning forecast. You see these World War Two campaign of bombing. All that it created bombing of Germany, all that it created was a rubble and it delayed the American advance. The it is the Russians who, who captured Berlin. First Man You know, you go for that, Vietnam, 20 years of bombardment, there are more bomb craters in Vietnam than there are craters on the moon. But you could not break the spirit of the Vietnamese people. The Vietnamese people fought back hard, and at the end of it, it is Americans which had to flee from Vietnam, from Saigon, hanging on to the rails of helicopters. Look at Afghanistan. Man No, no. Look at Afghanistan 20 years and that route from Afghanistan was far worse than Vietnam. It was a military disgrace the way the Americans exited in that tearing hurry from Afghanistan. Look at what happened in Iraq. Eight years, $4 trillion down the drain, and at the end of it, 1000s of body bags. And you had to leave to put regime change, Sir, you have to put boots on the ground. And my simple calculus was that America does not have that many boots on the ground. Number one. Number two, it does not have the stomach to take that level of casualties. Number three, you made a very pertinent point about the Yugoslav campaign. What was the state of the Russian they were in a total collapse. State, very weak. That is not so now. The Russians and the Chinese have been helping the Iranian the Chinese have been bankrolling the Iranian economy. They have persisted. They have refused to obey American sanction. They have continued to buy Iranian oil and gas, and it is because of that, they have kept the Iranian economy out. Yugoslavia had no supporters whatsoever. It was all by itself, you know.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
But another concept that is being debated in the last 48 hours is Christmas bombing of December 1972 when Richard Jackson wanted to extract a final negotiation and deal. Wanted to bring the North Vietnamese to the table, negotiation table. They were not coming. He bombed relentlessly for two to three weeks Hanoi and the areas, and in the end, he was able to obtain a negotiated deal from the North Vietnamese. Trump may be thinking the same
Gen Bakshi
look, you know, Einstein said, If you keep doing the same thing over and over and over again and expect different results, it is a sign of madness, right? You can do more of the same in the armed forces, in the Indian Army, we say never reinforce the failure. Reinforce of success. You had a stark failure. I mean, if you haven’t understood that, don’t compound the failure. Don’t double down and persist in doing what has not worked. The Iranians are underground. The IRGC is underground. They have whole cities where they are producing drones and rockets and missiles. As for the realistic military estimates in America itself, they have been able to destroy only 30% of the Iranian missile capability, even less of the drone capability, according to according to CR, and they are continuing the manufacture so you can keep bombing the mountains. Man, how does it make a bloody difference? The best antidote to bombing is to go underground, and they are under
Dr Moeed Pirzada
Do you think this war is over? Now?
Gen Bakshi
This war is over. Bar the shouting, it’s over. But in name, America and Israel, they made a gross miscalculation, a tragic miscalculation, and unforgivable miscalculation, you see, because you can’t. Get it so wrong before a war, if you underestimate your enemy so badly, then you are asking for trouble, and they have gotten trouble right. And what has worked is asymmetric warfare. Strategies of Iran have worked brilliantly. They have used the RMA, the revolution in military affairs wrought by drones and missiles. You see, they have learned lessons from Iraq. They have learned lessons from Afghanistan and Libya. In Iraq, you know, the Iraqi Air Force was no match for the United States Air Force and the NATO powers that were thrown into the bargain. So his only option was to use cuts. The Chinese studied this very carefully, because they also have a mismatch in air power and naval power they had at that time against the United States. So they caught on to the fact that the Scuds had been able was the only retaliatory asset that Iraq had. Iran and China, they learned this lesson, and they worked very hard on missiles and drones. The Chinese have a whole series of missiles with which they are they are able to destroy any aircraft carrier battle group that is steaming toward China. With their Dongfeng 20 1d and Dongfeng 26 and carrier killer missile, they can destroy the power projection capability of the United States has 11 aircraft carrier battle groups. But what Iran has shown Iran learned from the Chinese. It was able to produce its own ballistic missiles, hypersonic, maneuverable reentry warheads. It was able to produce cruise missiles, anti ship missile, number of them, hypersonic. We just cannot be stopped by the Taj, by the patriot, by any known air defense systems in the world.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
If this is true, general Bakshi, then why has Iran not attached any of the US aircraft carriers and missile destroyers so forth.
Gen Bakshi
Excuse me, what has happened to the Gerard Ford? Gerard Ford was hit, sir, and it has limped back to the United States. It is out of action. What has happened to the Abraham Lincoln? It was hit, it was repaired, and it has been brought back now, and America had to bring in two more carrier battle group there.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
It has not been reported. They say that the general Ford suffered from laundry fire.
Gen Bakshi
That’s why tell us another one. I’m a soldier with 37 years of service, 50% of it in combat areas. So tell us about laundry fire burning an aircraft carrier down.
Gen Bakshi
So have you heard of his book?
Dr Moeed Pirzada
So what do you what? So how do you look at this operation, freedom, the project freedom. I mean, but Donald Trump, It’s called off. It was called off on Tuesday, but on Thursday night, once again, the three American destroyers barged into the Strait of homers, and we don’t really know what really happened. You know, the Iranians fired in them. The Donald Trump issued a tweet he said that, look,
Gen Bakshi
Let me give it to you straight. If any American aircraft carrier or even destroyers enter the restricted waters of the Gulf of hormone well, they are not coming out,
Dr Moeed Pirzada
alright. Are you confident?
Gen Bakshi
I am so confident because of the missile mathematics, the the the Iranians have 350 kilometer range anti ship missiles their own. They are called Kyber, and they are called hormones. And they have the Chinese c3, 02, anti ship missile, ballistic cruise missile. Then they have ballistic missiles, you know, the two and the Quran share, you know. And the Quran share has a maneuverable warhead, they have access to the Chinese video GPS navigation system, which can give you one which has been giving Iranian missiles one meter circular error of probability CEP that is enough to sink any aircraft carrier to the bottom of the Gulf of Oman or the Gulf of Ormond, sir, if they enter they are not coming out. That is why the American carrier battle groups have moved 3000 kilometers away. You know the power projection, the entire paradigm of. Our projection has been stood on its head by a to ad anti access, area denial strategy, which the Iranians had borrowed from the Chinese and it has worked so superbly well if they’re putting their career or their destroyer and Iran is just waiting for that. So because one aircraft carrier down means 5000 American military lives, 5000 body bags, one destroyer means 250 body bag and that is the end of the political career of Donald Trump.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
In view of this, we only left with four days before the summit between Xi Jinping and Donald Trump. Do you expect that?
Gen Bakshi
The latest is that that has been canceled by Donald Trump. He’s very upset that China is supplying weapons that is, China is trying to destabilize their
Dr Moeed Pirzada
this is one hell of a development. Let me check, you know, just like because, let me also know, I just saw this on the YouTube this appened, but this No, no that this happened last time. It says the world’s second most powerful man are set to meet again. Here is what you have to know. It’s four hours ago by New York Times. No, it has not been canceled.
Gen Bakshi
Trump says one thing in the morning, another in the afternoon, and by the way, he has canceled it all. But what we I have seen some reports on the on the YouTube once again, the authenticity will we are just waiting to check, but we are told that Donald Trump is very upset with China for ruining his blockade of Iran, and they are continuing with their ghost fleet to buy the oil. The Chinese have just refused to accept American sanction. They passed the 2021 law. They have just passed it now. It was first moved in 2021 that American laws cannot be applied to China.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
Meeting was, you know, no, no. It is the same situation that the the May 14, 15 Summit is not canceled. President Trump has not canceled his meeting with President Xi, rather the it was just the it was Resch. No, no. It was the old rescheduling. I think it is. It is a disinformation. It hasn’t really canceled. So my question was this, that we are not only left. So
Gen Bakshi
if Donald Trump, no, no one, if Donald Trump has to meet Xi Jinping as scheduled, then he can’t do the Christmas bombing.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
Then he so we cannot expect any more muscular action in the state of hormones till this meeting takes place.
Gen Bakshi
Hopefully not. But like I said, You see you can. You can adopt a predictive model by studying patterns of behavior, studying patterns of past pronouncement, and then make a heuristic warning forecast, which is fairly accurate, but if Trump is, you know, there used to be something called calculated irrationality in nuclear, in nuclear veteran, you know, Nikita Khrushchev went to the UN Security Council, took off his shoe and banged it on the table, saying, Don’t push me. I can do anything. I can fire nuke. So that is called calculated irrationality. Unfortunately, what Donald Trump is trying is calculated in sanity. If you start behaving, I am insane. Nobody can predict me. Of course, nobody can predict somebody who’s insane, who should be in a white coat with buttons at the back, you know, but the but the simple fact of the matter is that with Donald Trump, I mean impulsive behavior, erratic behavior, which cannot be predicted. And that is why it is dangerous. That is why it is a dangerous to the whole of humanity. So
Dr Moeed Pirzada
you think the Chinese, the summit meeting with China, is going to settle the Iran, US war?
Gen Bakshi
I am not too sure. You may have to come back to keep mowing the grass again, kind of a situation, because this then could continue. But I am quite certain, as far as the American military is concerned. I mean, they are reasonable guys. They are very intelligent. It’s one of the best professional militaries in the world. There is no doubt on that particular score, they had a such, you know, intellectual sector think tanks, etc, to back them. The problem is Donald Trump doesn’t listen. He has no patience for briefings by his pentagon, by his armed forces, and he has disregarded the advice of his armed forces. Dan Kane had told him, Look, I can, I can destroy. Why the Iranian navy? There’s nothing much of a navy, much of an airport. But you know, you can’t do regime change with air power. He had told him, either, I can’t open the Gulf almost because the entire North Bank geography favors Iran. Entire North Bank. He’s got missile batteries, cruise missile, batteries, anti ship batteries, drone. You can keep that damn thing closed forever, and I can’t do anything about it. And he said, I don’t advise putting boots on the ground. They said, the minimum that I need, just to keep this rate open and to take the Northern Bank is about 200,000 troops, and for 18 months of fighting 15,000 body back, this also clear thing told to them by the American military.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
So moving forward, how do you think this conflict is going to end? You know, to use the vernacular share bapa. As this conflict Iran, the attack on Iran, this one is concerned, it has been a flop show. They persist with this, they will only add to their casualties and damage, right? I think at a particular point in time, some collective wisdom of the armed forces, the military industrial complex will prevail and say, okay, back off for now. That is how I see it ending. They’ll have to back off for now, unless he he wants to ensure you know, the American military power has suffered huge reputational loss. Rational law. So at least the people were scared of the American I’m afraid we’ve lost all fear all the countries that are watching in the third world now it’s not 10 feet tall. I’m sorry if you couldn’t, if you couldn’t get a medium military power to its knee, how are you going to tackle Russia, China, India, North Korea and these powers? I’m sorry, you know, I understand.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
I understand. I understand the fear, the fear and the impact is gone. The Fear Factor has actually gone. But the decline of the American empire, you hasten the end of the petrol dollar. You’ve done in your book, limited wars in South Asia.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
You had argued that conflicts in a nuclear backdrop must be carefully managed to ensure escalation dominance. Now India and Pakistan nuclear powers, just like it happened, Sindhu versus operation Banyan al Masur. Both are nuclear powers, and they really have to see every step in terms of escalation. Iran and Ukraine are two contradictory examples in the sense that Iran has been pitched Ukraine has been pitched against a nuclear power Russia and you and Iran has been facing Israel, which is a nuclear power, and United States, which is a superpower. So how do you think Iran managed the escalation dominance there
Gen Bakshi
they look the simple fact of the matter is that Ukraine is not had handed over its nuclear weapon, and Ukraine has suffered quite badly, but the fact of the matter is, Ukraine is backed by the United States. Nuclear weapons were used only in 1945 against Japan. When America was the sole nuclear power in the world, it was a situation of total asymmetry. But
Dr Moeed Pirzada
many analysts express the fear. I mean, Robert John multi they all have been expressing the fear that at some point Netanyahu in Israel could be desperate to use a nuclear weapon.
Gen Bakshi
Let me tell you, as a military analyst, I don’t see that happening at all. Israel dare not use a nuclear weapon, because it is not the only nuclear armed state in the world, right? China has nuclear weapon. Russia has nuclear weapon, and North Korea had offered, Kim Jong Un had offered to give its intercontinental ballistic his eyes and nukes to Iran. In case Israel uses a nuclear weapon, no country in the world would be crazy enough, including Israel, to dare to use a nuclear weapon and cross that nuclear Rubicon. You. I don’t see it happening. I don’t see it happening, neither Israel nor Pakistan will be able to use a nuclear weapon, you see. And there is a new doctrine that is emerging that in the you see, you said, India and Pakistan are nuclear weapons. How long did we fight in. Argin Three months, two divisions worth, we had used plus lot of artillery, and how many nuclear weapons were fired with zero. But you can say that we hadn’t crossed the LC option.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
There was another problem. The in 1999 India and Pakistan had not developed the delivery systems. Now, both countries have the deliveries.
Gen Bakshi
The initial delivery systems were based on jet fighters. The F 16 had been modified for nuclear delivery well before the war. We had our Jaguars. We had our mid 20 sevens. We had a whole lot of delivery vectors by which, through which we could have delivered nuclear weapons, and so did you. And then, of course, India has already started work on the retreat
Dr Moeed Pirzada
on more than one occasion. You refer to that Americans in the West use Pakistan against India. I want to basically expand and understand this point of view for my viewers, because Pakistan, the feeling is this that, after all, you had a strategic relationship with Soviet Union, which India successfully used in 1971 conflict, when Soviet Union’s pressure was there, and Soviet weapons and Russian weapons are still the mainstay of the Indian Army you’re objecting to. So when you talk of the ground realities, for instance, you mentioned that you know, the ground realities were assessed. In case of the Iran, Israel, US conflict. From the Pakistani point of view, they are a smaller nation. The population is less, the resources are less. India is big. Kashmir dispute is there. 1971 happened. So they have to avail all opportunities, whether they are coming from China or from United States. So when you refer that they are only being used against India, why do you say that? You know, Pakistan has every reason to be afraid of India, or fearful of India, or insecure because of India, but you were expressing your own insecurity because of Pakistan.
Gen Bakshi
No, no, no, no. You see, the simple fact of the matter is, who you see, the simple fact of the matter is that Pakistan, despite being the weaker state, has been the more aggressive non status quo power who is trying to change the status quo in Kashmir, Pakistan, who has been now talking of, you know that the run of Kach? You know that particular area, who’s talking of changing the status quo? It is Pakistan, the non status quo power. India is the status quo power. We don’t want any change in borders. Let’s get on from there. Let’s cooperate. Let’s move on. But the fact is, the destabilizer, the regional destabilize has been Pakistan, and they have been using extra regional power to, you know, get the wherewithal to be offensive against India. That is the problem. You know, Israel is a small state. But who is the destabilizer in the Middle East? Israel? Who is has been attacking Egypt, Iraq now, Iran, now. I mean Jordan, Lebanon. So small state doesn’t mean that it is a defensive state. Small states tend to be extremely aggressive over some kind of a compensation mechanism, which is created all the problem.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
But otherwise,
Gen Bakshi
India was very clear that it was focused on economic development,
Dr Moeed Pirzada
your your your, your doctorate is in Strategic Studies. You have written extensively on it. When you say that Pakistan is trying to change the status quo, it can also be seen that Pakistan is trying to use Kashmir and other things as a leverage against a greater power, because India is a bigger power. Pakistan is being insecure. Pakistan is using Kashmir to leverage and keep India away, because the dispute is not being settled. If Kashmir dispute settled and Pakistan.
Gen Bakshi
You think if Kashmir is settled, everything will be over between India and Pakistan? I know, unfortunately, I know we would. We would like to live in peace. But you see hamara yaha PE India perception here, not gng ako. Are you aware that 81,000 Indians have been killed in India because of Pakistan? Asymmetric terrorist offensive. You started it in Punjab, 1980s 26,000 Indian citizens, soldiers, et cetera, policemen were killed. Then it started in J and K, 45,000 were killed. Right then with the Indian mujahidi, you started a series of bomb blasts in the major cities and towns of India, Bombay, Calcutta, Bangalore, Ahmedabad. The name, 50,000 Indians were killed. Or add that all together, India has suffered 81,000 citizens for Indian Mujahideen. I have never seen that because I was part of some press conference.
Gen Bakshi
Look, Indian Mujahideen was raised specifically for deniability. The Islamic Student Union. Who are, you know, those people, Bhatkal, etc, were taken to Pakistan, and you are, I mean, you are a geostrategic expert. When
Dr Moeed Pirzada
2000 train attacks happened, I happened in Havana, in Cuba, there was an online summit in which the Prime Minister General Musharraf met one Singh. And there was, in fact, a press conference by the Indian by the Indian, Indian side, and the issue of the train attacks was discussed. And I was there, and the Indian spokesperson told the Indian media that we are not blaming Pakistan for the train attacks in Mumbai in 2006 by the Indian Mujahideen. He said, we have no evidence. I was actually present in the press conference.
Gen Bakshi
This was, look, look, look, look, we lost over 300 people in that train attack, right?
Dr Moeed Pirzada
Yeah,
Gen Bakshi
280 we had lost in that train attack. The logistical circuit was, you know, this, Dawud Ibrahim circuit, who is the prime logistician of the ISI in terms of providing he is the network with the ISI uses to smuggle in weapons, explosives help the infiltration of terrorists. So it was the Davos network which had done it. And the Davos network is closely aligned with the ISI. We are very sure and aware of our fact. And then when 2611 happens, would you, you know it was the Pakistani television which showed that fellow, what was his name?
Gen Bakshi
I’m forgetting was from Pakistan. They were trained in Pakistan. David Don Headley has confessed to
Dr Moeed Pirzada
the agree. What about Balochistan? The Pakistani military believes this thing that Indian intelligence is is helping the bla in sponsoring them. I mean, look at the train attack in Jaffar express in March of 2025 in which I think several 100 people were injured or abducted. So
Gen Bakshi
show us the evidence. Well, in India in 2000 show us the evidence that we are doing here. Indian naval, you
Gen Bakshi
have a local insurgency. You’ve been exploiting the Baluch. The Baluch have risen up this revolt, not now. I mean, I remember back Tikka Khan, and was the core commander in Baluchistan. And he was called The Butcher of Baluchistan. He he was, firstly, the Butcher of Bangladesh. Then from there, he had carried out operation such life. He was sent to Baluchistan. I remember way back in 1973 he had carried out a massacre of the balut. You now, you know, if you want to use strong arm tactic against all your minority. Of course, has problems in
Dr Moeed Pirzada
Baluchistan. But so India also has problem in Kashmir. So foreign, foreign powers get involved. You say, India problems
Gen Bakshi
have, by and large means resolved after we merge the state into India, finally, with 370 removal, you will find that is a far more peaceful place. I invite you to come to Srinagar, and you will see the tri color flying from almost every school government,
Dr Moeed Pirzada
despite the fact that I have a British passport, I cannot travel to India because they want me to take a visa on a Pakistani passport. So, you know, the Indian government, they have place, but I would like to, but because of the relationship between the two countries, just have we gone in too much, into India, Pakistan, there were two I wanted to address. One was the, what is the learning outcome for between the tank and the drone? I mean, what is the future?
Gen Bakshi
Let me just tell you straightforward that the drone has created a revolution in military affairs. There are three types of drone, the hail, high altitude, long endurance, the male, mid altitude, long endurance, and the tactical drone. What has created the revolution is just tactical drone and held, you know, and with a drone costing $2,000 you can destroy a tank costing a million or 2 million, depending upon which type of tank. So the asymmetry is amazing. You know, the first people to use the drones were the i. There by Johnny against the Armenian tanks, you know? And they scored a big success with the Barak drone right next. It was used in Ukraine in a very, very major way. And in Ukraine, they are using drones in the million and you know that the Russian tanks can’t move. They attack in infantry squads of six to eight, which are on the scrambler cross country motorcycles or the all terrains vehicles. They dump them and they think that is the kind of revolution in military affairs which has been caused by the drone. So what is, what to say that the tank is dinosaur is a threatened species? Is it threatened? All right, but the era is not over, because people are working. Scientists are working. India is working. America is working on counter drone technologies, especially laser, especially electronic warfare jammers. So it is drawn, counter drawn. So tank, anti tank. That is a long, long, long thing that we’ve been watching. The tank first made its appearance in 1914, many times it was declared extent, but it is not. And if you want to put boots on the ground, if you want to achieve decisive result, then you have to have tanks. You have to have the infantry man like me, we are not out of business. We we are not going out of business as yet.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
Okay, so one
Gen Bakshi
of the other thing is the asymmetric warfare strategies have worked wonderfully, especially against carrier based power projection. In the naval sphere, there has been a paradigm shift. I’m not very sure if America will risk its aircraft carrier battle groups if China attacks Taiwan tomorrow.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
So what about the India’s battle group? India also has an aircraft carrier.
Gen Bakshi
Yes, we have two aircraft carrier battle groups, but we have to now think, do we want a third or do we want to go in for more submarine, or do we want to work out some prophylactic measures to deal with anti ship missile syndrome? Maybe
Dr Moeed Pirzada
what is the, what is the strategic dimension of India’s relationship with Israel?
Gen Bakshi
Israel lets me rank it straight forward. In every war that we’ve had, either with Pakistan or with China, the Israelis have been supporting, I mean, let there be no doubt on that fact, they have been providing us weapon systems and technologies and for which we are grateful. The armed forces are grateful. But we think that, I think by aligning with Donald Trump and trying to destroy a third world country, I think Iran went a bit too far. It miscalculated grossly. Sorry, sorry. Israel went too far, and that is what we will tell. We have been telling our Israeli friends and interlocutors, you made a you made a gross miscalculation. You made a very big mistake. You shouldn’t have done it even now call it off, because they have paid a heavy price.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
But also, you’re saying that in aligning with the Donald Trump, Israel is the one we believe he has pushed Donald Trump into this war. The America had no strategic goals in in Iran. So you say that Israel aligned with it
Gen Bakshi
You know, you see, the head of the Mossad was quite convinced that he had a colored revolution all laid out in Iran. And it just had to be given a slight nudge and Iran would collapse like a house of cards. I’m afraid. This assessment of the moss which is a very professional intelligence agency, no doubt one of the best in the world, no doubt on that score. But they have miscalculated grossly. And the head of the Mossad convinced Netanyahu. Netanyahu convinced Donald Trump, it was not America’s war. You know Ken, the National Counterterrorism czar, who resigned his full name, I’m forgetting Ken. Ken is his first name, who resigned in protest. He said there was no immediate threat to the United States from Iran. There was no imminent threat from United States to Iran. From Iran to the United States, we have fought somebody else’s war. We have fought Israel’s war. And quite obviously, even in the American armed forces, the feeling is we don’t mind dying for our country, but we certainly mind dying for some other country. Be that is the feeling in the American
Dr Moeed Pirzada
How are you looking at the growing grift between Saudi Arabia and UAE on one side, and a relationship between UAE and Israel on the other side?
Gen Bakshi
I am afraid that after the Iran war, the failure of the Iran war to destroy Iran. There will be lot of changes that we will see in the coming months and years in the Middle Eastern landscape. It is difficult to predict what form they will take, but there is going to be lot of churn, lot of flux in the Middle Eastern geographical state.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
Because I was, I’m concerned that Israel’s strategic relationship with UAE, and both strategic relationship UA and Israel with India, would extremely unnerve and make the Pakistani military more insecure about itself. So they will then think of actually countering this through some other mechanism. So this is going to, this is going to raise the stress and tension in South Asia, you know, because UAE has been close to Pakistan. Now, UAE is drifting away. Pakistan is drifting towards Saudi Arabia. UAE has a good relationship with with India. India has good relationship with China as well. But India, UAE and Israel together, and Pakistan left on the side, is going to create law of insecurity. You can understand from your own strategic paradigm.
Gen Bakshi
Pakistan has sent 13,000 groups to Saudi Arabia. It has sent 20 jet fighters, F 16, JF 17 to Saudi Arabia. What they are going to do, what they are going to achieve? I’m slightly at a loss to understand you are taking out troops. You have huge problems back at home, with the Baluchi, with the paktun, your problem with the paktuns is far more serious, but
Dr Moeed Pirzada
this is on the instance that it is true under pressure from Saudis to give them reassurance, because Saudis are a big, major predator of Pakistan. But I’m not representing the Pakistani government. I’m
Gen Bakshi
just trying to read the mind. You know, the fact of the matter is, I’m, I’m sorry to say, you know, I’m not an admirer of your military. We have no problems with the Pakistani people, people to people, I find we have no problem. We are the same. I don’t represent the military.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
I’m sitting in Washington. I don’t, yeah, I know that’s why we are talking, that’s why we are talking, but I believe that the Indian and Palestinian military officers have good relationship with each other.
Gen Bakshi
No, not at all. I mean, just we are civil to one another, but we understand fully that all our problems are because of the Pakistani military, and it’s combative mindset of the NATO change and the Pakistani military. By making Pakistan an over military right state, is going to cause an economic collapse of Pakistan, just like the Austrian military, which ran the state collapsed. Austria, like the Nazi Germany collapsed economically, like Imperial Japan, over military state collapsed economically. Pakistan is an over militarized state. The military is, you know, grabbing the top resources needed, and that is why the Pakistani people are suffering as a result of the over ambitious Pakistani military. I’m sorry, your general reasons settle in London. Their children are all in London, the best of black or they are in Washington, right? And it is the Pakistani people who are suffering other god economically your stress, Jo hai. It is because you are an over militarized state. And with the Pakistani military, you know, extracting the the resources of the Pakistani nation state in a totally imbalanced manner. Half the problems are because of the Pakistan military and its exploitation of Islam as a tactical factor. Radical Islam as a tactical factor. Madrasas are, you know,
Dr Moeed Pirzada
the last question, do you think, because I’m a great believer, that India and Pakistan can cooperate and have improved relationship, do you think in the near term that there is a possibility of India and Pakistan coming close to each other, resolving their differences? You know, is there a possibility a better relationship between India and Pakistan
Gen Bakshi
only if a democratic dispensation, truly democratic dispensation, comes up in Pakistan, and not a puppet master. The Puppet string being with the Pakistani army, the Pakistani army has been running puppets for all the regimes and. Regimes are the, you know, for the past so many 75 plus years, almost 30 years, the Pakistan army has ruled directly, and the rest, it has ruled by proxy, through puppets, through proxies, you know. And unless that changes, I don’t see any peace and quiet between India and Pakistan. Basically there, theoretically there can be in the Indian National Army of Subhas Chandra Bose, who is my personal hero India and Pakistani military officers, soldiers, they fought together against the British. So theoretically it is possible, but practically it will only, can only happen if there is a truly democratic dispensation that represents the people of Pakistan. The people of Pakistan are so fed up, they have attacked the house of the core commander in Lahore. They took away his white peacock fridge, may say, craft cheese. Nekali. Exotic fruit, because the only politician who could hold a candle to the Pakistan army, he found, was Imran Khan. So unless democracy takes root in Pakistan. The trouble between India and Pakistan will not seize. The root cause of the problem is your military.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
But even when Imran Khan tried, I mean, he tried, you know, in 2019 and 18, he tried. He was not, initially, was a poster boy of the Pakistan military. He broke free later, initially he had been by New Delhi
Gen Bakshi
We saw that, we saw that he broke free. And everybody knows so he was he was not trusted, because initially we thought he was a poster boy of the Pakistan.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
He wrote a very immediately after becoming the prime minister in 2018 he wrote a personal letter to Prime Minister Narendra Modi asking for a foreign minister meeting at the General Assembly. And sush and Prime Minister Modi had agreed to it, and Sushma savaraj and Shah Maud Qureshi were supposed to meet in the General Assembly. Sidelines. Then something happened in Kashmir, a soldier was killed or something, and the Ministry of External Affairs, he said that Imran Khan is the terrorist. So I think that was a bad start between the two governments. He was very sincere. So he needed the New Delhi support, but he never got the support.
Gen Bakshi
I mean, let’s be straight forward. Initially, the Indian government saw him as another puppet politician, puppet politician of the Pakistan military, foisted by the military. And then, of course, he he chased at his military strings, and he broke them, outgrew them. And then, of course, we all know what happened. And then we saw a democratic upsurge in Pakistan, and which truly identified the Pakistan military as the bane of Pakistan’s problem. That is why the public came out on the streets that the first time we have seen a street Revolution like that in Pakistan against the Pakistan army. So peace between India and Pakistan will come only if genuine democracy takes root in Pakistan, as long as the military calls the shot, either directly or behind this screen. We don’t see any chance of peace with Pakistan. In fact, unfortunately, we see things going south
Dr Moeed Pirzada
On this unhappy note, we can conclude this discussion, which was mainly in the context of Iran, but too much on India, Pakistan
Gen Bakshi
Thank you. It was an interesting discussion.
Dr Moeed Pirzada
I look forward to read interlocutor. Yes, we’ll stay in touch. we welcome, you know, one to one discussion, because they help a lot. Thank you.
You can watch the full interview here
